.. : 2006-11-19
英国人对于加拿大移民的讨论
November 1 - 2006
My partner and I and our 9 year old son intend to emigrate to Canada.
I was horrified by some of the posts on this forum, I had no idea that rampant racism and discrimination existed in Canada, nor that immigrants are being lured there under "false pretences".
Would this also apply to white Brits? We do not have degrees, we will not be applying for professional positions. I would be happy, for example, to work at entry-level as a secretary or receptionist. I have heard that a receptionist with an English accent would be sought-after in BC, which is where we intend to live. Can anyone confirm this?
Despite these somewhat off-putting posts, we still intend to emigrate. We cannot afford to buy property here, but we could in British Columbia, and it would be bigger than here. We are fed up of England and want to live somewhere with less crime, cheaper property prices, higher standard of living, lower taxes (despite some posts I've read here), better education, cheaper fuel .... we are only in survival jobs here and living in rented accommodation so we are not losing anything - we have nothing to lose.
Vicki P. Aldershot, England.
November 3 - 2006
Vicki, apparently you should not have much problems as we have to face. Problem is not racism, though it appears to be. Problem is just lack of opportunity; and hence nepotism plays greatest role above all. Racism comes into picture in that way. Local whites naturally always enjoy the over edge. But among all immigrant groups, British origin immigrants are probably in best condition. As Canada is completely dominated by the British born, even theoretically a British colony. Specially when you will not go for professional jobs, things shouldn't be tough for you. May have to take a short course or so at worse. In Canada, the less educated you are, the better you would be.
But don't consider higher living standard of Canada as per the claim. Real state is cheaper here, but with the secretarial income I don't know how you can buy a home.
Shah. USA.
November 3 - 2006
To: Vicki.
Please reconsider and do not waste your life and time in this hellhole. You will regret it forever and ever.
Many of us have made that same mistake, by thinking that it can't get worse and that we have little or nothing to lose. It's so naive to think like that, the locals compete jobs, entry or otherwise. Jobs are incredibly difficult to come by in this country, the Canadian born can't get jobs so where do you stand? The grass always looks greener on the other side. I have seen Brits here who have made the same mistake, many go back.
You'll ALWAYS hear how Canada needs this or that type of skill (accent and what not) but at the end of the day you'll wishing you have not come here!
You now have sites such as this where you can get the real story and not be misled.
Just my advice.
Abdi. Ottawa, Canada.
November 5 - 2006
It seems that there are a few success stories of immigrants from non-English speaking countries. There are many more not-so successful stories, and - judging by the contributions to this web site - more than a handful of terrible, terrible stories of failure and regret. My own story includes all of the above.
I immigrated to Canada in 1968; a starry eyed, curious, and naive 19 year old Austrian fellow with eight years of basic schooling, and a journeyman diploma in printing. It wasn't long before I realized that the "sorry, no Canadian experience" was only a convenient excuse for not hiring suitably qualified "foreigners". Like many of my fellow immigrants, I worked in many God-awful menial jobs (social scientists have a word for it: underemployed). And like many of my fellow immigrants, I worked hard for every rung up the proverbial ladder. In 1973, I proudly accepted Canadian citizenship (only to realize afterwards, that I automatically lost my former citizenship - Austria does not recognize dual citizenship).
In 1979, - after a lot of educational "catching up" at night school - I graduated from the University of Alberta with a bachelor degree in vocational education, followed by months of unexpected unemployment, dwindling financial resources, and crushing disbelief. Any occasional work was in the form of short term contracts (you know, no benefits). In 1985, I graduated with a master of education degree, followed by - you guessed it - unemployment and short-term, meaningless, and dead-end jobs (does an "MS" degree stand for "More of the Same"?).
From 1987 to 1997 I worked on various overseas projects (including a 2 year stint with CIDA on Timor Island), ironically teaching Canadian "expertise" and "know-how" to people in developing countries. In 1998, I returned to Canada, hoping to stay in Canada at last, and after six months of unemployment (and no UI benefits), I was offered a position as Dean at an Institute of Technology. After two years, the institute restructured (again!), and I was out of a job without any warning or stated reason. At that time, I was 50 years old, unemployed (again), without much hope to finally embarking on a real career in my adopted country. I lost my house, many of my possessions, and half of my life's savings.
I left Canada, bitter, disappointed, and angry at myself for overstaying my welcome for so long. So many lost and lonely years! Afterwards, I worked for several years as university lecturer in a Southeast Asian country, and have now found a place in the sun in Malaysia. Now I work as ministerial adviser on training and employment matters, and look forward to the early 2007 opening of my own bed-and-breakfast inn in a spectacular natural environment. I've been told many times: Canada: love it or leave it. I've done both.
Peter A. Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia.
November 6 - 2006
Hi all,
I just red this Nov 2 CBC article online, here are the facts - nothing new for us...
Canada gets poor marks in international health survey of doctors
Canada lags far behind other countries except the United States in an international study of effective primary health care for patients released Thursday by the Commonwealth Fund.
The survey of more than 6,000 doctors in seven countries gave Canada poor marks on several aspects of patient care, including wait times for tests, use of electronic medical records, doctors available after hours, multi-discipline teams to treat chronic illness and financial incentives for improving quality of care.
The survey suggested Canada has a long way to go on many fronts to catch up with the other countries, which included the United Kingdom, Netherlands, and Germany.
Only 23 per cent of Canadian doctors use electronic medical records, the lowest percentage and far behind 98 per cent in the Netherlands.
Most Canadian physicians don't use computers to prescribe medications, access test results and hospital records, receive alerts about potential problems with drug doses or interactions or know when patients are overdue for essential care.
Other findings include:
-Fifty-one per cent of Canadian physicians report patients face long waits for diagnostic tests, compared with six per cent in Australia.
-Canada's doctors wait longest for full hospital discharge reports or don't get them at all.
-Forty-seven per cent have arrangements for after-hours care so people can avoid going to an emergency room, compared with 95 per cent in the Netherlands. Only the United States is lower than Canada at 40 per cent.
-Thirty-two per cent routinely work with multi-discipline teams and non-physicians to treat chronic illnesses, compared with 81 per cent in the United Kingdom.
-Forty-one per cent report getting government financial incentives to
improve care, compared with 95 per cent in the U.K.
-Canada had the lowest rate of doctors giving plans for home care to patients with chronic diseases.
-Only 27 per cent of doctors set formal targets for clinical performance, compared with 70 per cent in Germany and the U.K. Few collect information on patient satisfaction or clinical outcomes.
A Canadian official acknowledged the country needs to do a lot better, especially on wait times and ensuring doctors have information technology.
Take care - and better stay healthy
Doris Aubin. Ottawa.
November 6 - 2006
Vicki, don't be fooled. I made the same mistake 3 years ago, but had to run back to England as my plan B was in place. Forget the British accent, the postings in this forum are true - smell the coffin!
Phil. London, England.
November 7 - 2006
Sebastian of Mexico,
Why Canada advertises that it needs engineers? The answer is simple, the Canadian government knows that rich people will never come to Canada. Why come to Canada to pay 55% taxes? The Canadian government targets middle class professionals as they know that they might bring a considerable amount of resources compared to low income immigrants.
Immigration at the end of the day is business for the Canadian economy, you are basically getting resources from abroad to build your own economy. If the Canadian government were to bring poor people, the system would collapse as poor immigrants take resources from the system. The marketing campaign just is targeting professionals from the middle class with the promises of better opportunities.
Raul V. Montreal, Canada.
November 8 - 2006
Sad to know about Peter's story; but this is a more likely example for all prospective immigrants who believe in hard working. Immigrants are told in their first few years that their hardship is temporary, with their hard work and gained education/experience they would be enter into their career very soon. Then after many years hardship they eventually discover that they are trapped forever in their under jobs and it is already too late to return to their home country. I'm not saying always, but if you even get a local high class university degree chance is very high that you won't get job (as Peter, me, and many others).
Canada is traditionally a service based country and professional opportunities are very small, so nepotism plays above all. If you don't have any personal relationship, then all of your qualifications are worthless. Do Canadians ever think why this is so? How shameful it is! Now some started to believe that immigrants are facing problem in job finding (even still many think it is not true, they have plenty of jobs and immigrants are all making stories).
However, all have the impression that it is because of immigrants foreign credentials. It is partially true, but the major underlying cause is Lack of Opportunities. How would recognition of foreign credentials help if there are many thousands applicants and always local graduates are available? This simple but black side is never discussed anywhere. Nobody feels to discuss about the locally educated unemployed guys.
In Canada, you will be fighting for even a menial job and on the other hand have to listen "Severe Labor Crisis", "Industries are complaining", "Need to Increase Immigration Quota". Hard to digest. Such hypocrisy is only possible in Canada.
Shah. Florida.
November 11 - 2006
I would like to thank Nila from Toronto for her comments. The way your family suffer I have been suffering with same education and experience.
Moshin. Etobicoke, Canada.
November 12 - 2006
Write my case I would like to have some feedback
I was in Canada for 3 years - I am professional producer... my wife and I lost all our savings trying to support the Canadian living costs.. job? Long story...over qualified they say...
I left Canada and we are back in our country..happier...and making
some savings.. again : ) ! It's amazing how some Canadians do not realize how tough is to deal with breaking promises...
Best,
L. K.
November 13 - 2006
Hi there,
My experience immigrating to Canada is probably very different from that of most of your other contributors. Let me spell out the differences first:
- I came with a secured job for a blue-chip company.
- I am of the white race and my English had been fluent before I came.
- I had not been persecuted in any way in my home country.
- I am currently employed by a hi-tech company with a decent salary.
Still, I feel obliged to explain a few things to those who were born here, and post various opinions on your web site. Some seem to imply that if immigrants fail professionally, it is their own fault, or simply their fate to have been born in a place so bad, as to have to look for a new country.
First of all, let me state that, irrespective of what you might assume from the above bullet points, I consider moving to Canada as the worst mistake of my whole life, for which I will most probably pay with life in misery and undignified death of myself and possibly my family, most likely from hunger and exposure.
I will first elaborate a little on what mitigates the above four points, in the same order:
- My job was on a fixed term contract; when it expired I was let go. I can see some of you grin: the guy already had Canadian experience! For some reason this did not seem to help much: the year was 1999, when the hi-tech sector was hiring like crazy, and job fairs were organized for the sake of the employers, not the job seekers. Still, it took all my savings from the first year, and as much borrowed, to survive the endless process of humiliating rejection on the spot, or the couple of interviews to which I was called as a cover for them to demonstrate that they WERE in fact carrying out selection.
- I am indeed Caucasian, but happen to come from a part of the world that the Anglo-Saxon "Empire" treats below anybody with a different colour of the skin - Eastern Europe. I was recently asked if we played soccer there. To my stunned surprise, the person clarified: "I mean properly, in a stadium and such..."
- No persecution, on the contrary, I had always had a decent research and/or management job. As a matter of fact I came to Canada to work for the same multi-national company with headquarters in the US, for which I had worked back there. The amount they were paying me was beyond anything I could have imagined before; what I did not know was that this is not enough to survive here, least if you have just arrived with a family of another three.
- In my and my family's current situation, we somehow fail to chip away on the massive debt accumulated all these years. My wife, a renowned high-school teacher that had won the capital city's "Teacher of the Year" award back there, was ruthlessly exploited for close to minimum wage, while going through a humiliating "certification process"; Yes, meanwhile she did what she liked and could best - taught her subject, but also wrote the whole curriculum, and organised enrichment out-of-class activities, again for almost no pay, with no benefits and no free time for our family; at the end they also attempted to cheat her out of the last couple of paycheques.
This brings us to the topic of professional certification. It took the Ontario College of Teachers EIGHT MONTHS to assign my wife's file a number, before that they kept mailing the application papers back. Grounds? One example: "your birth certificate was not translated by somebody belonging to the association of translators we recognise"; by the way that association did not at all have a translator from that language. It went on and on; the one most revealing for me was the "insufficient academic hours", for somebody with 5 years of Masters, followed by two separate years of academic study in pedagogy. In spite of that, the hours did not add up to a sufficient number, because here they count the hours spent on homework and preparation, whereby in Europe they only count time spent in class! It dragged on until the term expired, then they collected another processing fee, but also demanded fresh documents, like police certificates from there, although we were now living here, permanently. The academic transcripts they demanded to receive directly from the University.
Well, it does not work that way: in most of Eastern Europe, universities would hand you over the official document but never trust regular mail to post it to you, or anybody else: possibly due to scarce funds for international postage, but also to protect your document from being lost or go into the wrong hands! This odyssey of working around ended "well": she is now a certified teacher, on the 7th year after applying, and after being asked to take university courses after all. However, no school board wants to employ her.
It is proclaimed that standards are being guarded. I agree. The incredibly low standards of health care, education and law and order have to be guarded for the people occupying these spots; else it will take no time for the newcomers to take over on the sheer basis of competence. Want proof?
- education: when my son was in grade 10, they sat a LITERACY TEST. Where we come from, people become literate in grade 2. It gets even better: stats were announced over the radio that eighty-something percent passed in Ontario. This means that over 10% failed... literacy... in grade 10!
- health care: here I can only speak as a client of the system. Forget wait times (even just to see a specialist), I have seen doctors do the following: use the stethoscope through a pullover; put plaster beside the broken part of the bone; look at common allergic hives in unconcealed dismay, pull a book and start consulting it, then prescribe the wrong treatment.
- law, order and crime prevention: maybe my view is biased but all the criminal cases of persecution I somehow came to know of (including through news on the media) were miscarriages of justice. The worst case was of a person from my "old" country who spent years in prison for a murder he never committed; he was apparently convicted on "expert" opinion, accompanied by the COMPLETE silence of the lawyer he was paying to defend him. Now his innocence has been proven through DNA analysis. Meanwhile the Air India people walked!
Why do we not go back?
I am surprised that none of your contributors ever touched on this topic: we are stuck here under the burden of debt! This is the only place in the world I know of, where I am paying the premium of an insurance policy, for which SOMEBODY ELSE is the beneficiary, namely the bank that provided my mortgage (ever heard of CMHC?).
I hope my message reaches other people: DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT!
This is a pyramid scheme for new blood to be able to feed the retired; it is partially based on "free" trade (as opposed to fair trade), but also on the targeted operations of another kind, about which here is not the place to elaborate. Part of that loot is of course the funds spent on education for the children of starving retired people from other places (like me), who are now creating GDP for somebody else...
I wish I could turn time back.
T.V.P. Ottawa.
November 14 - 2006
Hi everyone,
Now that previous poster mentioned 'pyramid scheme for new blood', I think that visitors to this website should know also a bit more about Canada Pension Plan, what it means for our future as well as how is it related to current immigration policies and our plight.
"The CPP is a key pillar of Canada's retirement income system" and "The plan is financed by compulsory contributions from workers and their employers and interest on accumulated plan reserves" ( quotes from gov's website).
Well, The Eighteenth Actuarial Report calculates the value of accrued pension benefits (what we will need) at $487 billion and Plan assets (valued at cost) at $43.7 billion (what we have now) as of December 31, 2000. In short, there is a hole in this great 'Plan' of around $440 BILLION.
Now there is a lot of upbeat rhetoric's in the same Report such as "However, the future financial health of a plan funded along the lines of the Canada Pension Plan is better measured by the evolution of the projected growth rate of assets and liabilities." Key word in this sentence is sadly not the 'future' as one would hope but 'projected'.
This means that in practice Plan needs a continuously growing supply of a new labor to pay for retirees. If the supply stops growing, or grows too slowly, the scheme's promises are defaulted.
To be sure, this Ponzi-like pension scheme looked attractive at the time it was conceived and there were 8 or 10 people working for every retiree, but once birthrates start to fall and only one or two people are working for every retiree, the only way a retiree's pension can be paid is if workers' contributions represent a huge percentage of their earnings.
Canada's fertility rate at the moment stands around all-time low of 1.5% (2002) with people having less and less children or having them in their late 30's or early 40's (our case). A minimum replacement rate (needed just to keep the population at the same level) is 2.1%!
This combination of outstanding liabilities in CPP and aging and diminishing population has been responsible for the government's decision to increase immigration levels as ONLY viable source of population increase. In short, our new homeland never needed qualified and hardworking immigrants with good knowledge of English and French as it claimed in various brochures, it just needed fresh supply of labor to keep economy going and Baby Boomers' pensions coming.
The US operates almost the same pension scheme, only called Social Security, but the difference is that US has highest fertility rate in the industrialized world, large number of legal immigrants (7.6 million came to the U.S. from 1991 to 1999) and large number of illegals (government estimated in 1996 that an additional five million immigrants were in the U.S. illegally). All those factor help our neighbours maintain more positive outlook towards the future retirement.
Our future looks less rosy. With expected huge number of fresh retirees in the near future it will take even higher number of newly taxable workers to maintain standards of living (as it takes several gainfully employed to support one retired). This explains why CEO of RBC Group asked for immigration levels to go up to 400,000 a year. They are needed to prop up the ailing economy, serve as taxpayers, and will also help business to drive prices up and wages even more down. Yes, drive wages even more down.
I hope that this will help all to better understand the nature of this country and why the current policies in place will always be maintained despite occasional claims, usually from politicians during the election time, that much better immigration and credential system is coming soon. Canada has no other choice.
Thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.
K.S. Montreal, Quebec.
November 15 - 2006
You know? I was planning of moving to Canada. The hard part was to convince my wife about it. We both are architects, and I have a postgraduate in Domotics and RFID Systems. Fortunately, I found your website, and I'm in shock by the stories I have read. I appreciate this service you provide to the community. After this, I'll look for a job in another country.
Thanks and regards,
Ricardo. Mexico.
November 16 - 2006
Hi everyone,
I'm writing to you from Puebla, Mexico. I have been reading postings about moving to Canada, and I'm really surprised by the comments of people who live or have lived in Canada.
I want to tell you that in Mexico there is much advertising to move to Canada. My wife and I have talked about it. A couple of days ago, a consulting firm made a radio ad in which they said that there are many job opportunities in Canada, and they will make our immigration application. They also talked about the point system. All of this encouraged me a lot because I know nothing about the immigration procedures, and I thought that was the best option because they assured me that I would get my PR.
I'm taking French lessons with a French professor, and I told him that I want to move to Canada. The first thing he said was that it will be the beginning of the end. I thought that having kids would be helpful, but I see that's not the case, so I'm thinking of definitely staying in Mexico. Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks and more power, there is no worse fight than the one than one does not become. Perseverance yields results.
Omar F. Puebla, Mexico.
November 17 - 2006
To Omar,
Of course there is a lot of promotion to immigrate to Canada. Immigration consulting is a huge business around here and it is easy money as Immigration to Canada is a straight forward procedure and only requires you to be healthy, be in a productive age, have a university diploma and be proficient in one of the official languages of Canada.
However, there is a catch. Easy immigration means hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming every year with professional qualifications. Why would happen if you have 100 thousand professionals coming to Guadalajara or Monterrey in Mexico? What would be the chances for these people to find suitable professional jobs?.
To make things worst, Monterrey and Guadalajara Mexico have lower unemployment rates than Montreal and Toronto where most of these immigrants land. Montreal is always at a 10% rate while Toronto at the 9%.
If one wants to get a professional job as an immigrant, the best is to immigrate to a country where immigration barriers are higher than Canada. One friend from Canada immigrated to Ireland (not as easy to immigrate as having 500 bucks and a university degree) and found a professional job within 2 weeks. The difference is that Ireland does not get 200 hundred thousand immigrants per year.
When something is too easy and good to be truth, there is always a catch.
Raul. Montreal.
November 17 - 2006
Mr. Omar F. Puebla, your French teacher probably gave you the best advice, nothing more than that. Definitely the consulting firms are simply deceiving you all in broad day light.
Shah. USA.
November 17 - 2006
To Raju,
How 5 billion be trivial? This is net income coming into the country for no other reason than granting you a piece of paper. Immigrants have to stay at least 3 months before they can have the right for health care, enough time to get taxes out of them to pay for their health care so they are not getting it for free.
The immigrant would come spend all the savings then realize that it is time to go back to school, the immigrant then gets a loan from the bank or government to get a degree or certificate. The student then graduates and if lucky will work in his field but if not, at least would find a job of some sort that will enable him to pay his loan back and government taxes. The reality is that about 50% of our students won't work in the field of study. Some of them will come back for a higher degree (more work for us!) and some of them just will give up and find any type of job.
It is an "excellent business". Because of immigrants, the bank gets the interests for the loans for school fees and finally the government gets the taxes when the immigrants start paying taxes.
This is an excellent business model that has been followed by Canada in order to stay in business.
Raul. Montreal.
