从“中加对峙”风波中讨论一下美加司法独立

[oldbei]

不放，估计才是抗拒川普，川普要变成政治化不引渡还是挺明显
当然如果美国不发引渡，加拿大就只能按规则放人了

啥叫“只能按规则放淫”? 说得好像是加拿大狠不情愿放淫似的。

 

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啥叫“只能按规则放淫”? 说得好像是加拿大狠不情愿放淫似的。

加拿大外交部长方慧兰(Chrystia Freeland)和国防部长石俊(Harjit Singh Sajjan)周五与美国国务卿蓬佩奥(Mike Pompeo)和国防部长马蒂斯(James Mattis)会面，就孟晚舟案件牵涉出的一系列问题交换意见。

 

[iou2007]

加拿大抓华为的人根本没用.加拿大现在是在被美国利用,欺负.

几个英联邦国家结合,可以有足够的人口和GDP,有核武器,到时候谁还能欺负我们!

 

[Chinada]

加拿大外交部长方慧兰(Chrystia Freeland)和国防部长石俊(Harjit Singh Sajjan)周五与美国国务卿蓬佩奥(Mike Pompeo)和国防部长马蒂斯(James Mattis)会面，就孟晚舟案件牵涉出的一系列问题交换意见。

加拿大今天的新闻标题

First Saudi Arabia, now China — Canada has a new foe, and its southern ally isn’t helping

 

[未尝不可]

加拿大今天的新闻标题

First Saudi Arabia, now China — Canada has a new foe, and its southern ally isn’t helping

这个更贴切，
We've Never Been This Alone.' Canada Is Caught Between 2 Super Powers。

 

[oldbei]

这个更贴切，
We've Never Been This Alone.' Canada Is Caught Between 2 Super Powers。

还是欣赏一哈兲朝大屎的文章比较有味道。

Lu Shaye is the Chinese ambassador to Canada.

After the groundless detention of Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of Huawei Technologies Company Ltd., by the Canadian side at the request of the United States, a lot of comments emerged in Canadian media. We are gratified to see that many Canadian people were imbued with a sense of justice, criticizing the Canadian government for its unreasonable behaviour. However, some have defended Canada’s actions, largely arguing that either Huawei poses threats to national security of Western countries or that Canada has an independent judicial system that should be completely independent from any political interference of the government.

Huawei, with many partners around the world, has a great reputation globally. It has publicly stated, on many occasions, that its global operations are in strict compliance with local laws and regulations. Nevertheless, members of the Five Eyes countries – the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada – have accused Huawei of threatening their national security while providing no evidence. With such speculation, they have sown fear and misled people. If Huawei’s telecom equipment poses a security risk, so do the devices produced by Western telecom equipment manufacturers, since they use the same science and technology. To find out who poses the biggest threat to the security of other countries, please refer to the United States' PRISM program. Those who criticize China’s Huawei should exam themselves in the mirror.

It all comes down to the fact that many still have a stale cold-war mentality, believing that China – a socialist country led by the Communist Party of China – is an abnormal country. They are worried that China is catching up to Western countries too quickly, and that it will surpass them in terms of the economy as well as science and technology. That’s why they crack down on Chinese enterprises and impede China’s development under the pretext of national security.

The detention of Ms. Meng is not a mere judicial case, but a premeditated political action in which the United States wields its regime power to witch-hunt a Chinese high-tech company out of political consideration. The so-called long-arm jurisdiction of the United States, however, has no legal basis in international law. The reason behind all the bullying behaviours of the United States is that it pursues power politics against other countries relying on its huge advantage in national strength. Just imagine how the United States would react if an American company suffered from such unfair treatment in a foreign country.


The Canadian side detained Ms. Meng in an unreasonable way given she has not received any charges according to Canadian laws, which is clearly not judicial independence but a miscarriage of justice. While Canada has continued to stress its judicial independence, did it insist on that independence when facing the United State’s unreasonable request? The Canadian side has not made its judgement independently, otherwise it would not have arrested Ms. Meng. The Canadian government has asserted that it was fulfilling the international obligation to the United States, but did it fulfill the international obligation of protecting the lawful and legitimate rights and interests of a Chinese citizen? Ms. Meng was abrasively arrested just as she transferred at the Vancouver International Airport.

Those who accuse China of detaining some person in retaliation for the arrest of Ms. Meng should first reflect on the actions of the Canadian side. It is both ignominious and hypocritical to revile China with double standards.

As a Canadian reader of The Globe and Mail wrote: “I am ashamed our government would participate in the kidnap and ransom of a leader of a foreign company.” In the past few days, many Canadians have made phone calls to the Chinese Embassy or posted their views online, expressing their indignation at the unfair treatment of Huawei, especially at the detention of Ms. Meng by Canadians.

The Chinese people used to have a favourable impression of Canada. But Canada’s behaviour this time has chilled their feelings.

兲朝的大屎最近好像挺爱发表文章滴，前有驻瑞典大屎的胡说八道，今有驻加拿大大屎的无理取闹，都是王部长领导得好？

 

[laox888]

实际上美国也不想要个烫手的山芋，最终目的只是想让全世界知道华为做了什么。同意几位的分析，就是川普把这个事情政治化，让加拿大有理由不引渡孟女士了。逮捕这个事情加拿大真的没得选择，一接到协助请求就必须按照美加引渡协议和加拿大的《引渡法》来执行。现在好了，川普说只要对美国有利就会干预，这让加拿大司法部长有理由不把人交给美国了。最后结果我们拭目以待。

华为卖东西给伊朗不仅是卖了美国的产品，而且是在联合国制裁伊朗期间卖的，即使没有卖美国产品也是不对的，作为联合国安理会常任理事国中国不应该包庇这种行为。当然，如果不是美国产品，美国法律就管不着，要管也得联合国来管。美国这次要求逮捕孟女士的理由只是金融咋骗，就是为了避免管辖权之争把问题复杂化。

基于很多粉红说孟女士是中国公民所以应该属于中国的管辖权，我也看了一下有关中国的刑法解释，按照中国刑法主张，中国公民在境外违法只有两种人属于中国管辖以示保护：公务员和军人。具有讽刺意义的是，国安部的徐副处长明显属于中国刑法所主张拥有管辖权的一类人，但中国政府对他的事情不吭声，而对自己的刑法都没主张有管辖权的孟女士问题却不惜一切地干预，中国的法律明显是摆样子的。

加拿大的制度，司法和行政的界限在什么地方？根据这些天的脑补我觉得这个界限应该是在司法部长那里。司法部长在制定和修改法律（提交议会批准）、签订国际司法协议等问题时是个行政部门的负责人，但在行使很多司法职责时又是位律师、法律顾问。一旦案子到了检察官的手上就不是行政问题而是司法问题了。检察官只能依法办事，他没有考虑政治因素的余地，他也没有考虑法律是否正确的余地。这里对司法部长和总检察长的职责有描述：
https://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/pub/fpsd-sfpg/fps-sfp/fpd/ch03.html

看了很多地方的评论，没有一个提问美国是怎么知道孟女士的行程的。华为内部接近孟女士的人、旅行社、或国泰航空里头有线人？看来国安部要忙一阵子了。

 

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正在开美加会谈后发布会

Q: is Canada becoming “collateral damage” in a trade war between US/China?
Freeland: “there has been no interference in this process ... Canada understands the rule of law and extradition issues ought not ever to be politicized or used as tools to resolve other issues”

Freeland: Canada was not making a “political judgement” by arresting Huawei CFO; insists Canada was “living up to our international treaty obligations” at request of US

Q: is Canada being caught in a trade dispute with US & China?

Pompeo: “I don’t see it that way ... respect the rule of law each step of the way”

 

[oldbei]

实际上美国也不想要个烫手的山芋，最终目的只是想让全世界知道华为做了什么。同意几位的分析，就是川普把这个事情政治化，让加拿大有理由不引渡孟女士了。逮捕这个事情加拿大真的没得选择，一接到协助请求就必须按照美加引渡协议和加拿大的《引渡法》来执行。现在好了，川普说只要对美国有利就会干预，这让加拿大司法部长有理由不把人交给美国了。最后结果我们拭目以待。

华为卖东西给伊朗不仅是卖了美国的产品，而且是在联合国制裁伊朗期间卖的，即使没有卖美国产品也是不对的，作为联合国安理会常任理事国中国不应该包庇这种行为。当然，如果不是美国产品，美国法律就管不着，要管也得联合国来管。美国这次要求逮捕孟女士的理由只是金融咋骗，就是为了避免管辖权之争把问题复杂化。

基于很多粉红说孟女士是中国公民所以应该属于中国的管辖权，我也看了一下有关中国的刑法解释，按照中国刑法主张，中国公民在境外违法只有两种人属于中国管辖以示保护：公务员和军人。具有讽刺意义的是，国安部的徐副处长明显属于中国刑法所主张拥有管辖权的一类人，但中国政府对他的事情不吭声，而对自己的刑法都没主张有管辖权的孟女士问题却不惜一切地干预，中国的法律明显是摆样子的。

加拿大的制度，司法和行政的界限在什么地方？根据这些天的脑补我觉得这个界限应该是在司法部长那里。司法部长在制定和修改法律（提交议会批准）、签订国籍司法协议等问题时是个行政部门的负责人，但在行使很多司法职责时又是位律师、法律顾问。一旦案子到了检察官的手上就不是行政问题而是司法问题了。检察官只能依法办事，他没有考虑政治因素的余地，他也没有考虑法律是否正确的余地。这里对司法部长和总检察长的职责有描述：
https://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/pub/fpsd-sfpg/fps-sfp/fpd/ch03.html

看了很多地方的评论，每一个提问美国是怎么知道孟女士的行程的。华为内部接近孟女士的人、旅行社、或国泰航空里头有线人？

政府要想监控航班里有啥乘客，狠容易吧？连文贵都能拿到类似的资料。

兲朝和华为一直竭力要营造一个正常政府和正常公司的形象，最近这一番表演让世界都看到鸟他们之间的不正常关系。偶看一些评论家说，兲朝政府营救孟女这阵仗，像是在营救自己的一名高级间谍或官员，哪里像是在对待一位有可能在国外犯法的普通商淫？

 

[未尝不可]

政府要想监控航班里有啥乘客，狠容易吧？连文贵都能拿到类似的资料。

兲朝和华为一直竭力要营造一个正常政府和正常公司的形象，最近这一番表演让世界都看到鸟他们之间的不正常关系。偶看一些评论家说，兲朝政府营救孟女这阵仗，像是在营救自己的一名高级间谍或官员，哪里像是在对待一位有可能在国外犯法的普通商淫？

这个就是美国最想达到的效果，引渡听证拖的时间长，关注就会越多而且长期化

 

[oldbei]

这个就是美国最想达到的效果，引渡听证拖的时间长，关注就会越多而且长期化

你这还是把法律政治化的思路。

即便如此，也是你今儿早上讲的辣样，是米国某一伙儿淫的想法。

 

[未尝不可]

你这还是把法律政治化的思路。

即便如此，也是你今儿早上讲的辣样，是米国某一伙儿淫的想法。

政党与政党之争，国与国之争，怎么会没有政治，
嘴里说不是，其实大家都心知肚明，区别其实是不是在规则之下玩

 

[未尝不可]

比如刚才这个回答，就是个外交的回答，谁信？

Freeland: Chinese officials “have not drawn a connection” between the arrest of Huawei CFO & detention of 2 Canadians in China

 

[ccyyyycc]

比如刚才这个回答，就是个外交的回答，谁信？

Freeland: Chinese officials “have not drawn a connection” between the arrest of Huawei CFO & detention of 2 Canadians in China

小土豆说孟的事加拿大政府事先知道，但是管不了，是不是外交回答呢?

 

[oldbei]

还是欣赏一哈兲朝大屎的文章比较有味道。

兲朝的大屎最近好像挺爱发表文章滴，前有驻瑞典大屎的胡说八道，今有驻加拿大大屎的无理取闹，都是王部长领导得好？

摘一点儿加拿大淫的反应：

目前的情况再明显不过鸟，兲朝对动用国家权力来对无辜的个淫进行虚假指控毫无不适感。兲朝正在给偶们展示其真正原始的特征，其现代正义感的缺乏，以及其独立于政客指令的法律系统的缺失。兲朝因此将其在世界面前的形象倒退鸟几十载。假如此前还有淫对兲朝的缺乏原则和诚信存在将信将疑的话，如今怀疑将不复存在。

"Those who accuse China of detaining some person in retaliation for the arrest of Ms. Meng should first reflect on the actions of the Canadian side." NO! This unbelievable statement from a top diplomat is astounding proof again of China's lack of understanding and easy disregard for the rule of law and human rights.

It couldn’t be more obvious that China is comfortable with using the power of the state to make false accusations against innocent individuals. China is showing us its true primitive character, that it still lacks a modern sense of justice, and a legal system that is independent from arbitrary directives by politicians. China has set back its image in the world by decades. China lacks principles and cannot be trusted, in case anyone had any doubts.

 

[未尝不可]

小土豆说这事加拿大政府知道，但是管不了，是不是外交回答呢?

就是个在中美利害权衡和倾向的问题，
从目前的规则来看，好像不能干预，但干预也就干预了，
一是大哥的请求，再加上规则，需要往那一边倾向还是很明显的

 

[oldbei]

小土豆说孟的事加拿大政府事先知道，但是管不了，是不是外交回答呢?

是或不是都没错。加拿大政府在兲朝抓淫质来施压的情况下依然管不鸟。

 

[laox888]

摘一点儿加拿大淫的反应：

目前的情况再明显不过鸟，兲朝对动用国家权力来对无辜的个淫进行虚假指控毫无不适感。兲朝正在给偶们展示其真正原始的特征，其现代正义感的缺乏，以及其独立于政客指令的法律系统的缺失。兲朝因此将其在世界面前的形象倒退鸟几十载。假如此前还有淫对兲朝的缺乏原则和诚信存在将信将疑的话，如今怀疑将不复存在。

再花多少钱买时代广场的广告也没用。

 

[ccyyyycc]

加拿大抓华为的人根本没用.加拿大现在是在被美国利用,欺负.

几个英联邦国家结合,可以有足够的人口和GDP,有核武器,到时候谁还能欺负我们!

不用外人，东部欺负西部就已经够受了。

 

[oldbei]

政党与政党之争，国与国之争，怎么会没有政治，
嘴里说不是，其实大家都心知肚明，区别其实是不是在规则之下玩

你这说法奏是大家无可避免都是流氓。

也许圣淫不存在，也许耶稣不存在，但是俺还是相信淫的动机有本质的不同，虽然也许100%的良善不存在。