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2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

我就是ME后被切的。自从知道这次官司的结果后,就对ME组那个集体官司不抱希望。
认认真真规划一下未来吧,没办法了。


没有人会全败,也没有人会全胜。我对ME还是比较乐观的,这是一个很小的团体,ME的胜诉不会给其他组带来任何好处。

也许在你想放弃、不关心这个事情之后,惊喜突然来临。前提是不要撤诉,该怎么安排生活就怎么安排。
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

ME组的人应该单独出来打/上诉, 有前面的判例, 再说胜诉了也很难被其他组借用. 人也不多, 所以应该全力要求律师单独拿出来上诉. 天堂兄说得对啊.
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

我昨天就ME组的问题给三位律师的邮件都收到了回复。ME组的转机还是有的,王仁铎其实也在给ME的专门作辩论,这个辩论就与此次违宪辩论无关了,根据他和Justice Rennie的交流,ME的大有希望!
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

moi的意思,撤诉


我现在发现契而不舍愿意抗争到底坚决不放弃的同学有很多,即使我强烈号召你们全部放弃别上诉了,也还是有很多人听不进去会继续上诉。当然我现在完全没有劝大家撤诉的意思。

我认为无论你撤诉不撤诉,那些律师仍然会继续上诉,如果下次联邦上诉院败了,就会再上诉到最高法院。没人可以阻拦,除了Justice Barnes。

我觉得最最乐观的结局是,2014年下半年庭外和解,到时候起诉人会很少了,现在只有1400个主申,很多人这次会撤诉的,而且越往后起诉的人会越少。等到2014下半年,28万人的案子全部毁了,再也不会死灰复燃。那个时候庭外和解符合CIC的利益,既然是和解,你们当然就要不到一分钱的赔偿了,保守党给你人道主义,让你对它感恩戴德,就是这么回事。
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

从有些段落来看,坑你的selection decision 似乎等于Rennie 的Final decision。那么OB442即使在总体上consistent。final的细节定义显然需要纠正,我们ME的按照Rennie定义都是accepted的,都该放行!Fufei案子被排除在外也是合情合理。


你收到了我转发过去的三位律师评论ME组情况的邮件了吧,是不是感到振奋了呢?我对你们这么热情,从来没得到回馈:wdb7:
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

回报于下,分享一下我给律师们的信:
Concerning compensation in Judg's decision, our applicants really cannot accept some words using to whitewash CIC's fault.Yes, our applicants [44]have freely chosen to apply to come to Canada and to incur the related expense. In reality,every contract is based on free will of all parties.Could everyone breach the contract regardless of harming other parties just because they freely enter the contract? Any excuse for depriving compensation is inhuman. For example,[43]"A taxpayer could not claim procedural protections against a change in income tax rates that adversely affected him."a taxpayer can receive service from government by paying tax. What our applicants received from the termination? Only cost and loss! Judge Rennie deems no [44]economic opportunities in immigration. In economic dictionary, I check out the opportunity cost which means the cost of passing up the next best choice when making a decision,not actual cost. If CIC notify applicants the risk of termination upon application, we can deposit this amount of money to receive fixed interest. However, From Rennie's decision our applicants cannot have the right to require the compensation for various fees and opportunity cost in terms of "interest" . Common sense tells us there is no justifiability in this decision.
Especially, another problem to ME group is the meaning of "a positive selection decision" which seems to be contradictory and obscure. [28] "It is apparent from the plain reading of the section that only the final decision given by an officer qualifies as a selection decision." However, OB442 differentiates the selection decision and final decision.For example,If the application has not been finalized before June 29, 2012 and the visa officer has established whether the applicant meets the selection criteria prior to March 29, 2012, this case continues processing to a final decision. Apparently,Rennie's final decision is different with the meaning of final decision in OB442. Confusingly,the Judge supports minister instruction OB442 in [35] "Operational Bulletin 442 is consistent with this interpretation." Fortunately, ME group still have hope with reference to [59] "As I have previously explained, if any applicants believe their applications were improperly identified as terminated and can point to a positive selection decision before March 29, 2012, they may apply to the Court for an order of mandamus." Here Judge Rennie's selection decision ,essentially being equivalent to selection decision in OB442 ,can be interpreted as final decisionaccording to[28]. ME group also received positive selection decision and had been accepted before the law coming into force. [35] "In my view, if the FSW application had been determined before Bill C-38 received RoyalAssent then there was no pending application for section 87.4 to terminate. It ceased to be “pending”. It was now spent. Section 87.4 only purports to terminate applications, not an applicant’s file indicating that he or she has been accepted, much less a permanent residence visa once it has been issued. Operational Bulletin 442 is consistent with this interpretation." ME group applications were also determined before June 29,2012. Therefore OB442 should change the definition of final decision to selection decision according to Rennie's decision. It is also fair to ME applicants considering that it is totally CIC's fault(illicit OB400) that visa officer cannot completed our cases in time before June 29 in 2012. For most of our applicants, we have finalized all my obligation before June 29,2012. The above is my analysis for your reference.
读到改变税率,我想起来CIC还有Bill38以前的法律保证我们按申请时标准审理。希望大家再琢磨一下判决,多跟律师与大家交流!我也发给了所有的律师。
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

如果在这期间,收到了退费的支票,该如何处理呢?是暂时忽略,还是兑现?兑现是不是表示接受退案呢。还是不理会最好。Les Paradis,您的辛苦大家都看得到,也心里充满感激!很庆幸,论坛有您!
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

如果在这期间,收到了退费的支票,该如何处理呢?是暂时忽略,还是兑现?兑现是不是表示接受退案呢。还是不理会最好。Les Paradis,您的辛苦大家都看得到,也心里充满感激!很庆幸,论坛有您!


收到强制退费可以兑现。只要不是你自己主动去要的,都不影响官司
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

又给律师发了新的发现:
Rennie said [43]"A taxpayer could not claim procedural protections against a change in income tax rates that adversely affected him." I just realize more problem on the analogy between our immigration applications and tax. Put aside the taxpayer can receive services and benefit from the government and our applicants only loss on time,energy and money.
In fact, We applicants get the promise and form rational expectation on no risk of termination from CIC's immigration manual and guidance which guarantee that our cases will be assessed according to the criteria at the time of application no matter whatever the immigration rules change later.More importantly, Bill C50 also enact similar concept into the law.
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

Tim回信表示感谢:
Xie xi ni

On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:01 AM, xiaoyou xu <xiaoyouxu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear lawyers:

Under instruction from Tim, I check my ME letter again:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Just...=.nmp_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1.gmp_73790

Visa officer clearly admitted: As a result, until such time as the FSW proposal becomes law, this office will continue to make selection decisions on pre C-50 applications. Your application has been put into process, and a selection decision has been made.


Cheers!
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

同意天堂的分析, 先把ME组救了再说. 将来再用ME组的判例看是否能救部分其他同学.
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

这些段落主要是关于赔偿部分。而ME遭受损失最大,受这个类比的影响也最大。若和解不成,曲线救国靠赔偿施压就必须驳倒这个条款。
我们不要对什么都太过乐观,若和解不了还得靠违宪诉讼。
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

2003年那次官司比这次顺利得多,因为当时Tim的Dragon案在72分的及格分确立之前就成功了,法官判定用老规则审理起诉人,最后CIC不得不放弃用72分追溯的计划。

我们这次违宪开庭之前,还没有被一刀切的人成功,liang案里的635人也被切了没有得到审理。假如LIANG案的635人成功翻案了,大部队的胜算才大。这就是一环套一环的道理,也是为什么Justice Barnes要把635人压下去的原因!TIM的成功不了,其他人很难成功!
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

这些段落主要是关于赔偿部分。而ME遭受损失最大,受这个类比的影响也最大。若和解不成,曲线救国靠赔偿施压就必须驳倒这个条款。
我们不要对什么都太过乐观,若和解不了还得靠违宪诉讼。


如果ME的救不了,违宪有救?你觉得违宪的难度比ME的要小?

你说不要过于乐观,可是你寄希望于违宪诉讼,那不是太乐观了吗?

赔偿的诉求在第一线的位置已经被否定了,根本没可能judicial review,还什么曲线救国啊?你现在做赔偿的案子,根本不会granted leave,而是直接轰出去!
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

At common law, it is only ratio decidendi of a case that is biding.
All other legal statements made by the judge are not biding, which are called obiter dicta and do not form part of the precedent.


你只知道来背书。不过我觉得你变nice了一点,哈哈哈:wdb6:
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

太过乐观,


我在上面说“最乐观的结局”,不代表我很乐观,而是一种可能会出现的情况,既有“最乐观”的结局,也有“最坏”的结局。“最乐观”是个形容词,来形容“结局”这个名词,而不是形容我的主观想法。

这不是文字游戏,是最起码的语言表达。
 
回复: 2个话题:1这次败诉对ME组造成很坏的影响 2一刀切很难被撼动

At common law, it is only ratio decidendi of a case that is biding.
All other legal statements made by the judge are not biding, which are called obiter dicta and do not form part of the precedent.


harvey.liu想向你请教个问题:

retroactive和retrospective,这两者有什么区别啊,如果你能不吝赐教详细解释这两个法律名词,我会很感激。
 

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