惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

I am writing in English is because I don’t have Chinese input tools installed in my office computer. Please don’t criticize me.

I live in Alberta, maybe the rules is different to BC. So my experience is just for your reference

I read your article yesterday and want to tell you about my experience to help you. I was planning to reply you in Chinese at night at home, but I didn’t because I have to take care of my baby.

I am a computer programmer, living in an apartment. I don’t know why but the landlord let me manage the whole building because he needs to live in another city. My duty is to maintain all the apartments (fix, cleaning, and lawn moving) and also collect rent fee every month and deposit it into his bank account. So I got the chance to know the native tenant about how kind or how bad how rich or how poor they are and also how the landlord and tenant fight with each other.

To help you I just tell you I and the landlord fight with the bad tenant.

About 6 months ago, A tenant’s pay check didn’t go through the bank ( Kong Tou Zhi Piao) which means he didn’t pay the rent. I give him 14 day notice to move out(In this article, every time I say I did something with the tenant is the landlord command me to do it), and warned him that if he don’t pay within 14 days, I will shut down the electric power and water(in fact I can shut down the power of a apartment only I can shutdown the water of the whole building not for a apartment). If it was not summer I will scare him by saying shutdown the heat too. Then 14 days later, I shutdown the power and he moved out at the end of that month without make any cleaning without notice me that he has gone. I call him and left message, he never call me back. Naturally I didn’t return him the security deposit(Ya Jin)

Later on the landlord talked about this tenant with me, he said he is not the worst. He have ever meet a bad tenant who didn’t pay the rent, and not going to move out. The landlord shutdown the power, and also take his apartment door off. Then the tenant use the power outlet bar with long cord connected to the power outlet in the hallway, and put a curtain on the frame of the door. The landlord came and took the power cord off the outlet once a while. Later on the landlord asked his friend who was a very robust white man scared the tenant. Later, the tenant moved out.

Don’t be afraid of the native Canadian. When you talk with gentleman be gentle, but not with such bad tenant. I heard my landlord fight with his tenant, the first thing he say is “fuck you”. Sometime tenant threat me saying will sue me to the court, when I tell my landlord, he will say: “Please let him go ahead”. Just give another example. On the 15 of a month, a tenant came to give me 30 day notice that he is going to move out 15th of next month. Normally tenant move out on the end of the month, but in the rent agreement, it didn’t say you can only moue out at then end of month. So I called the landlord, maybe he was busy on his issue and agreed. After the tenant move out, the landlord wanted me to reduce half of the rent from his security deposit. I think the tenant didn’t do anything wrong and you have agreed with her. The landlord said, “ok, please call the landlord administration ask them for suggestion”. I called the administration, they said: “If the apartment is not rent out in the next half month, then I can charge half of the rent”. I am really scared when I mail the list of charge and the check with the remaining part of her security deposit to her because she was a Japanese doing not very good job. Money was very important to her. She fight with me many times and threaten me to sue me to the court many times before she move out for other issues. I have prepared in mind that when she call me, I will say: “ please don’t talk to me, please call the police or sue me”. But she never call me at all.

Do you know what will happen if the tenant call the police if you fight with him. My tenant fight with each other, and called me. I said, please call police, I manage the building not manage your relationship. Then they called police, when police came, they know the tenants fight each other but nobody is hurt. The police can’t figure who is right who is wrong and left with doing anything. So if you fight with your tenant don’t be afraid of police.

I don’t suggest you talk with Mr San Mu. The agent or lawyer is the person who want to make simple things complex. He only try to make you confused with rules, regulations or laws, scare you and let you listen to his all kinds trainings to puzzle you. Then he can charge you the service fee. His purpose is not to help you solve your problem. The longer you spend on this issue or the more trouble you have the happier he is.
 

三木

地产经纪,踏实勤奋
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

I am writing in English is because I don’t have Chinese input tools installed in my office computer. Please don’t criticize me.
.


非常赞赏你真诚助人的态度。。

草草地看了一下你的长文,我不得不说,可能你不了解BC省的租务法和其他法律,所以,你的做法或说法,如果发生在BC省,则不一定都合适,仅举2个例子:

1. 在BC省,管理出租房屋,必须要专门的licence。 根据你的说法,你好像没licence就管理出租房屋,这在BC省是不允许的(见real estate service act)。

2. 在BC省,没有取得相关的裁决指令以前,屋主不得停水停电(见RTA第32条第1款);不能把屋子锁起立,不让租户进门 (见RTA第31条第1款)。

我没有管理出租房屋的执照,不可能开展相关业务;我不是律师,不可能帮人打官司,所以你说的误导别人以图牟利的动机在我这里不存在。我在这个帖子里的发言,和你一样,完全是帮忙的,没有任何企图误导任何人,请大人明察。 :confused::confused::confused:
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-26
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

非常赞赏你真诚助人的态度。。

草草地看了一下你的长文,我不得不说,可能你不了解BC省的租务法和其他法律,所以,你的做法或说法,如果发生在BC省,则不一定都合适,仅举2个例子:

1. 在BC省,管理出租房屋,必须要专门的licence。 根据你的说法,你好像没licence就管理出租房屋,这在BC省是不允许的(见real estate service act)。

2. 在BC省,没有取得相关的裁决指令以前,屋主不得停水停电(见RTA第32条第1款);不能把屋子锁起立,不让租户进门 (见RTA第31条第1款)。

我没有管理出租房屋的执照,不可能开展相关业务;我不是律师,不可能帮人打官司,所以你说的误导别人以图牟利的动机在我这里不存在。我在这个帖子里的发言,和你一样,完全是帮忙的,没有任何企图误导任何人,请大人明察。 :confused::confused::confused:
三木很有涵养:wdb17:
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

非常赞赏你真诚助人的态度。。

草草地看了一下你的长文,我不得不说,可能你不了解BC省的租务法和其他法律,所以,你的做法或说法,如果发生在BC省,则不一定都合适,仅举2个例子:

1. 在BC省,管理出租房屋,必须要专门的licence。 根据你的说法,你好像没licence就管理出租房屋,这在BC省是不允许的(见real estate service act)。

2. 在BC省,没有取得相关的裁决指令以前,屋主不得停水停电(见RTA第32条第1款);不能把屋子锁起立,不让租户进门 (见RTA第31条第1款)。

我没有管理出租房屋的执照,不可能开展相关业务;我不是律师,不可能帮人打官司,所以你说的误导别人以图牟利的动机在我这里不存在。我在这个帖子里的发言,和你一样,完全是帮忙的,没有任何企图误导任何人,请大人明察。 :confused::confused::confused:
1. 不一定的,只要不签字,应该是没问题的。车行卖车也要License,但是没有License一样可以上去推销。

2. 你那是法律,实际上执行起来未必是这样。大多数这种烂房客都很懒很穷,他们不太可能去自己钻研法律上庭,或者雇佣律师打官司。房产公司摸准他们的脾气,这么做是很有道理的。

3. peterzyj讲的是实战,三木讲的是理论,二者还是有区别的。
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

感谢楼上各位的分析和分享!加分分!

多年前,我曾经有过经验作为租客去租屋所(RTB - Residential Tenancy Branch)申请Resolution Dispution,那里的Officer都非常Nice。仔细告诉你所有的过程。。。他们的工作过程都遵循严格的Process,效率并不低,我递交的申请两周后我就有消息并制定听证Hearing,他们并没有根据法律的死条款去认定没有过错的人有错。。。也没有一定要大家坐在一起,只是约定了时间举行了一个电话听证会议。。。省去不少时间、路程等。。。
我的Case中按照法律规定,如果房东与房客公用厨房或/及洗手间的话,按照RTA法律规定是不可以告房东的,但是法律也规定,房东不可以任意扣留房客押金两周以上(除非你没有告诉房东你的地址或电话),这种恶房东想欺侮和利用新移民了解法律不多不深,语言也不够好。。。扣留房客押金还让新移民感觉有怨无处申。。。
数天后我就收到信Decision Made,Decision Made完毕之后,如果你不满意结果,你还有机会申请Review。千万不要自作聪明拒绝接受别人的信件或Register Mail,不去或不按时去听证。。。按照法律规定,Register Mail没有去申领被退回,按照发信5日后已收到处理(如果你没有铁证证明你无法正常受到信件的话)。。。我的那个房东就自作聪明用各种借口拒绝退还我的押金,拒绝接受我发的Register Mail,= 拒绝听证,结果失去为自己辩护的机会,最后被判赔我双倍押金,那个房东继续拒绝接受我的Register Mail,= 拒绝赔我双倍押金,并最后失去申诉机会。。。我就只好申请强制执行Enforcement。。。

虽然我花了不少时间、金钱和精力,但是我的感觉是值得的,我们不能姑息这些恶人继续作恶。。。这也是我们学习成长的过程。。。

另外,保留证据(人证、物证)最最重要,那就是在保护你自己。。。学会用法律保护自己。。。

BC省的租赁法律法规可以参考:http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/


以上个人观点,仅供参考。
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-27
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

另外,如果房东有给代理人授权书,代理房东是可以执行房东的行为的。。。

另另外,从没听说房子出租在BC规定要有License的。只要按时纳税就好。。。如果需要License的话,具体条款是哪个?在哪里办?费用几何呢?因为有些之前的经历,我可是有幸读遍了BC租房条例的。。。难道我有漏读?!

当然,Building Manager据说是要License的,好像也没有硬性规定。。。当然兼职的偶就更不知道有没有这样的硬性规定了。

记得在读Burnaby高中的时候,有个同学就是新移民,刚好她的公寓招聘管理Caretaker,她就应聘做了全职Caretaker。。。代理收管理费、支票等,而且工资并不比IT民工低哦,我们同时登陆的,她的口语却要好的多。。。

另另另外,据我所知,根据BC省的租房条例,房东确实没有权利驱阻房客,但是可以申请强制执行,申请让sheriff Officer强制执行限制其48小时之内搬离。如果房客没有工作,那并不是房东的过错,无家可归、没有工作的人可以去政府的收留所。房东为什么要为无家可归、没有工作的人去承担责任和义务?

比方说,每月1号房客应该却没有按时交房租,房东书面通知给14天的时间,如果还没有交就到RTB申请劝其搬离,申请费用$50元(如果是低收入,提供收入报税单,可以申请减免),两周后听证,房客说地毯有问题,但是房东说验屋师没有办法进屋验屋,事先(或请听证官决定)请验师再验一次(验师有责任给你出具所有房间的验屋结果),如果没有漏水问题,听证官不会让你赔地毯。如果有漏水问题,那就让听证官判赔地毯多少钱或请房客出具发票买个相同的。
按照BC租房条例规定,房客不可以以任何理由或借口不按时缴纳房租。
记得告诉听证官:房客应该继续交房租直到离开为止。。。外加申请仲裁费用$50元。
数天后就会收到判决书。如果房客没有依据证明判决结果含欺诈,是不予Review的。
两周后如果房客还是没有交房租,到小金额法庭(Small Claim Court)申请强制执行,申请费用$70元左右(含Police fee $30)。。。申请让sheriff Officer强制执行,限制其48小时之内搬离。。。此房客从此进入RTB恶房客黑名单。。。

如果之前房客用个人支票付房租就最好了,申请强制执行时可以申请在银行账户上扣房租和所欠费用(所以我个人主张房东收租最好不要坚持收现金,收支票比较好,并保留所有支票的复印件作为证据,同时也方便报税使用)。

搬家费用有什么理由或法律依据让房东出呢?

房东大概会损失1个月左右不到2个月的租金加两次申请费用。。。关键是房东自己不要拖自己的时间。。。

当然如果你要请律师翻译并打官司,费用只能你自己承担,据我所知,律师的收费基本在$200/小时。这种小型仲裁调节听证并不值得这么做。我刚来的时候,英语口语也不是很好,口音很重,但是自己为自己辩护,按照法律法规和听证步骤边学边做,把事情清楚地表达出来,也是一种不可多得的锻炼机会。。。

以上个人观点,及多年前的经验,仅供参考。
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-27
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

"To talk with gentleman be gentle, but not with such bad people..."

够经典!!!two thumbs up!!

:wdb20::wdb19::wdb10:
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-27

三木

地产经纪,踏实勤奋
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

另外,如果房东有给代理人授权书,代理房东是可以执行房东的行为的。。。

另另外,从没听说房子出租在BC规定要有License的。只要按时纳税就好。。。如果需要License的话,具体条款是哪个?在哪里办?费用几何呢?

.......

红字部分澄清两点:

1。出租房的房屋本身,按法律规定需要LICENCE,这个可以到当地的市政府申请。不过,大温地区〉80%的民宅出租都没有LICENCE,民不告,政府也不会认真追究。

2。出租房屋的管理人,如果是房东自己,不需要有License,如果是请代理(Agent)管理,那个Agent必须有Licence。这和屋主可以自卖自己的房子,而代理别人卖房子必须有License一样。

上述两点是BC省的法律规定,别的省我不知道。

还有,回到楼主的问题,如果想不走法律渠道,可以找个道上的朋友,令那赖皮拉塌的租客,限日搬走,且房租一文不能少!!!
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-27

三木

地产经纪,踏实勤奋
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

。。。。。。
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

红字部分澄清两点:

1。出租房的房屋本身,按法律规定需要LICENCE,这个可以到当地的市政府申请。不过,大温地区〉80%的民宅出租都没有LICENCE,民不告,政府也不会认真追究。

2。出租房屋的管理人,如果是房东自己,不需要有License,如果是请代理(Agent)管理,那个Agent必须有Licence。这和屋主可以自卖自己的房子,而代理别人卖房子必须有License一样。

上述两点是BC省的法律规定,别的省我不知道。

还有,回到楼主的问题,如果想不走法律渠道,可以找个道上的朋友,令那赖皮拉塌的租客,限日搬走,且房租一文不能少!!!

没有试过黑道,但是我知道根据国家法律明文条款,"Threaten"是要坐牢的。

本人个人意见,仅供参考。不是"Threaten",呵呵。。。:wdb10:

另外,黑道如何收费啊,他们不会白帮忙吧?如果给少了他们不愿意,那不是还没有出虎口就要进狼窝啊?:wdb13:

1。政府都不追究意味着什么?
2。“屋主可以自卖自己的房子,而代理别人卖房子必须有License一样”是房地产买卖、大综金额交易的严格法规(Real Estate Trades Act),不同的法律体系,不要拿来与租务条例(房东、二房东与房客的关系Residential Tenancy Act)比照好不好?
当然,如果是地产管理公司,房东需要签定经纪代理合同(Real Estate Trades),那么地产管理公司这个执行经纪一定要有License。因为经纪代表这个地产管理公司。如果有纠纷,地产管理公司当然要找合格的经纪有License的去执行啦。。。否则地产管理公司担当这个责任和损失?
 
最后编辑: 2009-11-27
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

热心人还真不少。
俺虽然不懂BC出租的相关法律,不过一来温哥华就听说这里的法律是偏袒租客的。
感觉三木分析的比较靠谱冷静。此事关乎出租房子打官司,又不是买卖房子,他一个地产经纪解释这类问题估计也只是帮忙,难有什么收益。俺这儿也跟着长长见识。
租金这钱,还真是不好赚哦。。。
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

总结一下:软的怕硬的,硬的怕愣的,愣的怕横的,横的怕不要命的。

I am writing in English is because I don’t have Chinese input tools installed in my office computer. Please don’t criticize me.

I live in Alberta, maybe the rules is different to BC. So my experience is just for your reference

I read your article yesterday and want to tell you about my experience to help you. I was planning to reply you in Chinese at night at home, but I didn’t because I have to take care of my baby.

I am a computer programmer, living in an apartment. I don’t know why but the landlord let me manage the whole building because he needs to live in another city. My duty is to maintain all the apartments (fix, cleaning, and lawn moving) and also collect rent fee every month and deposit it into his bank account. So I got the chance to know the native tenant about how kind or how bad how rich or how poor they are and also how the landlord and tenant fight with each other.

To help you I just tell you I and the landlord fight with the bad tenant.

About 6 months ago, A tenant’s pay check didn’t go through the bank ( Kong Tou Zhi Piao) which means he didn’t pay the rent. I give him 14 day notice to move out(In this article, every time I say I did something with the tenant is the landlord command me to do it), and warned him that if he don’t pay within 14 days, I will shut down the electric power and water(in fact I can shut down the power of a apartment only I can shutdown the water of the whole building not for a apartment). If it was not summer I will scare him by saying shutdown the heat too. Then 14 days later, I shutdown the power and he moved out at the end of that month without make any cleaning without notice me that he has gone. I call him and left message, he never call me back. Naturally I didn’t return him the security deposit(Ya Jin)

Later on the landlord talked about this tenant with me, he said he is not the worst. He have ever meet a bad tenant who didn’t pay the rent, and not going to move out. The landlord shutdown the power, and also take his apartment door off. Then the tenant use the power outlet bar with long cord connected to the power outlet in the hallway, and put a curtain on the frame of the door. The landlord came and took the power cord off the outlet once a while. Later on the landlord asked his friend who was a very robust white man scared the tenant. Later, the tenant moved out.

Don’t be afraid of the native Canadian. When you talk with gentleman be gentle, but not with such bad tenant. I heard my landlord fight with his tenant, the first thing he say is “fuck you”. Sometime tenant threat me saying will sue me to the court, when I tell my landlord, he will say: “Please let him go ahead”. Just give another example. On the 15 of a month, a tenant came to give me 30 day notice that he is going to move out 15th of next month. Normally tenant move out on the end of the month, but in the rent agreement, it didn’t say you can only moue out at then end of month. So I called the landlord, maybe he was busy on his issue and agreed. After the tenant move out, the landlord wanted me to reduce half of the rent from his security deposit. I think the tenant didn’t do anything wrong and you have agreed with her. The landlord said, “ok, please call the landlord administration ask them for suggestion”. I called the administration, they said: “If the apartment is not rent out in the next half month, then I can charge half of the rent”. I am really scared when I mail the list of charge and the check with the remaining part of her security deposit to her because she was a Japanese doing not very good job. Money was very important to her. She fight with me many times and threaten me to sue me to the court many times before she move out for other issues. I have prepared in mind that when she call me, I will say: “ please don’t talk to me, please call the police or sue me”. But she never call me at all.

Do you know what will happen if the tenant call the police if you fight with him. My tenant fight with each other, and called me. I said, please call police, I manage the building not manage your relationship. Then they called police, when police came, they know the tenants fight each other but nobody is hurt. The police can’t figure who is right who is wrong and left with doing anything. So if you fight with your tenant don’t be afraid of police.

I don’t suggest you talk with Mr San Mu. The agent or lawyer is the person who want to make simple things complex. He only try to make you confused with rules, regulations or laws, scare you and let you listen to his all kinds trainings to puzzle you. Then he can charge you the service fee. His purpose is not to help you solve your problem. The longer you spend on this issue or the more trouble you have the happier he is.
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

peterzyj 说的很好,而且都是自己亲身经历的。
我还真不信就没有办法赶走一个无赖,而且我真的不信政府/警察会不分清红皂白的袒护无赖 (如果你确定它确实是无赖)。
当然可以停水停电了,让它去告好了--我也不是为了那个无赖才停,我没有钱了不得不(偶尔在关键时刻)停水停电。警察来了怎么了?他为你付钱给它供水供电?大不了再打开水电就好了。晚上放放音乐跳跳舞,就当没有这个人--没有交过房租不知道底下有没有人。经常去给它换把锁--没有交过房租不知道有没有人,打911好了,一个月让它打15次,警察来了就把锁打开,甚至有时候钥匙都丢了。然后每次都顺便问问警察应该怎么解决,是不是你应该养这个一辈子?无赖还真没法治了???
你让它告你好了,如果真的政府支持无赖,你败诉又有什么损失?
在中国怎么处理在加拿大还能一样处理。你就别费钱费时间的请律师中介了,停水停电锁上门然后出去玩一个月去! 自己想开一点,不就是和一个无赖斗斗,你自己想着法子从它身上找点乐子嘛!租你的房子还能成老大啊!
关键一点,买房子的时候让对方把全部租客赶走这是应该的,想租应该自己重新招人。
 
最后编辑: 2009-12-09
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

我找过警察了,他们是不管这些事的。你想想,专门负责此类事件的是RTB,但是他们的协调结果也仅仅是出一份让租客搬走的“调节通知”而已,租客照样可以赖着不搬走,屋主就只能去法院申请强制搬迁令,如果租客还是不搬的话,就只能请强制执行法官请搬迁公司搬了。目前为止,我还没有弄清楚这笔搬迁费应该由租客付还是由屋主付。那么,整个事件过程中,租客所欠交的租金等所有损失都会无人理的,而且,租客在欠租期间,屋主得要保证他们正常生活,确保水电、暖气等一切供应正常,否则,屋主就是违法的,而租客将房子破坏到完全面目全非的损失都是没有人理的。
资本主义国家的法律逻辑与我们的思维方式完全是不同的,所以,你可以想象我处理此事该有多困难!
无论如何,谢谢啦!知道自己不是孤独的啦!!
希望大家一定从我这件事情之中吸取教训,不要认为这里的人真的个个都是“正人君子”,反而是”小人“多得很,而且可笑的是,法律还支持这些无耻”小人“名正言顺地赖账!
警察都不管那你就停水停电锁它的门啊,警察来了你就无辜的说No Mondey,或者线路坏了,修也需要时间啊。我自己都没有钱用水电,凭什么保证它的??
 
回复: 惨痛教训!购房遇到麻烦租客。谁有经验处理这类事?帮帮我,谢谢!

警察都不管那你就停水停电锁它的门啊,警察来了你就无辜的说No Mondey,或者线路坏了,修也需要时间啊。我自己都没有钱用水电,凭什么保证它的??
房客可以犯法,因为他们赔不起,顶多申请破产。房东不行,不交罚款,申请破产是会拍卖房子的。光脚不怕穿鞋的啊。
 

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