鱼目岂可混珠:法律都有,民主与专制中的“法治”天渊之别---曹操与诸葛亮

最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
89.57%
你不可能违宪,
宪法是怎么制定法律的法,法律可能违宪,人不可能违宪,人只能违法,

人违法被诉,到了法院,可以用所违之法违宪,作为抗诉根据
庸俗易懂的说, 目前的中国, 习大就是宪法, 神圣不可侵犯

同样自带宪法属性的还有三胖:cool:
 
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
Rule by law是什么意思, 听着很别扭,
‘Rule by law’ simply means rule by any law which is laid down by the supreme law making authority of that country. One is not concerned about what the law is or what its purpose is. In most of the dictatorships and monarchies, there is a set of laws through which the justice is administered. But, in such countries, rule of law does not exist.
On the other hand, ‘rule of law’ connotes rule of law which is based on certain principles of law. This word is also drawn from a French word ‘spirit delegalize’. What the principles of law will be is a point of considerable debate. The concept of rule of law was developed by Dicey after he observed the development of law in France. At that particular point of time, France had two system of laws and two system of courts governing the same territory and the same group of people. One system was known as the Civil Law System. It was the law which was passed by the Parliament. It governed the relationship between the people inter se.
The second system was ‘droit administratif’ which was a system especially designed by the government to decide the disputes between the government, government servants and the people. The law which was applied there was not that which was passed by French Parliament. It was developed by the highest administrative court on a case to case basis. If there was some kind of conflict between a common man and the government, the matter went to the administrative court. It was a part of the administration. The judges were government servants and they administered the law which was laid down by the highest administrative court. From this, Dicey was trying to understand how justice is possible. Therefore he said that it is a rule according to law. It is not a ‘rule of law’ and hence justice is not being done to the people. He came to the conclusion that in England, there is no administrative law and in England, the fundamental principles of the British Constitution are two:
1. The Supremacy of the British Parliament
2. Rule of Law
The basic concept of rule of law is to control the unlimited exercise of the power by the supreme law making authority of the country. Rule of law also means certain principles. If in any society, the law by which the people are ruled is based on both the particular principles, then only one would say that that particular society is a rule of law society. Otherwise, every other society is a ‘rule by law’ society.

上面这段读起来是非常复杂的。
我老爸(不是法律专家)曾对我说过,西方的法律比如指明偷窃,杀人放火,贪污等是违反了法律,不管任何人,包括政府的高官领袖违反了,都要受到法律的制裁,也就是说法律高于每一个人;
专制的所谓法律,并没有指明那些是违反了法律,因此你不知道你会不会违反了法律。中国党内,政府的官员贪污了,是由党来决定官员贪污了,然后再交给司法机构审判。

 
最大赞力
0.53
当前赞力
100.00%
‘Rule by law’ simply means rule by any law which is laid down by the supreme law making authority of that country. One is not concerned about what the law is or what its purpose is. In most of the dictatorships and monarchies, there is a set of laws through which the justice is administered. But, in such countries, rule of law does not exist.
On the other hand, ‘rule of law’ connotes rule of law which is based on certain principles of law. This word is also drawn from a French word ‘spirit delegalize’. What the principles of law will be is a point of considerable debate. The concept of rule of law was developed by Dicey after he observed the development of law in France. At that particular point of time, France had two system of laws and two system of courts governing the same territory and the same group of people. One system was known as the Civil Law System. It was the law which was passed by the Parliament. It governed the relationship between the people inter se.
The second system was ‘droit administratif’ which was a system especially designed by the government to decide the disputes between the government, government servants and the people. The law which was applied there was not that which was passed by French Parliament. It was developed by the highest administrative court on a case to case basis. If there was some kind of conflict between a common man and the government, the matter went to the administrative court. It was a part of the administration. The judges were government servants and they administered the law which was laid down by the highest administrative court. From this, Dicey was trying to understand how justice is possible. Therefore he said that it is a rule according to law. It is not a ‘rule of law’ and hence justice is not being done to the people. He came to the conclusion that in England, there is no administrative law and in England, the fundamental principles of the British Constitution are two:
1. The Supremacy of the British Parliament
2. Rule of Law
The basic concept of rule of law is to control the unlimited exercise of the power by the supreme law making authority of the country. Rule of law also means certain principles. If in any society, the law by which the people are ruled is based on both the particular principles, then only one would say that that particular society is a rule of law society. Otherwise, every other society is a ‘rule by law’ society.

上面这段读起来是非常复杂的。
我老爸(不是法律专家)曾对我说过,西方的法律比如指明偷窃,杀人放火,贪污等是违反了法律,不管任何人,包括政府的高官领袖违反了,都要受到法律的制裁,也就是说法律高于每一个人;
但专制的所谓法律,并没有指明那些是违反了法律,因此你不知道你会不会违反了法律。中国党内,政府的官员贪污了,是由党来决定官员贪污了,然后再交给司法机构审判。

还真有rule by law的说法, 今天头次听说,涨知识了
 

未尝不可

思考的芦苇
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
佩奇好文
本大王以为,这个其实涉及到几个概念:
1. 法治和法制的区别
2. 同为法治,民主国家的法治的核心是宪法; 专制国家所谓法治,核心是刑法(宪法是童话)
3. 法治是否包含了所有人,特别是否包括制定法律,执行法律的人
法治对付权力,法制对付老百姓,
法治限制公权保护私权,法制在于加强公权减弱私权
法制只是使权力拥有者又多了一个统治的工具。
记得以前看过新闻,美国司法部长的说中国是rule through law,而不是rule of law。
我去找一找
 

未尝不可

思考的芦苇
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
美司法部副部长细数中国“依法治国”恶行
 

未尝不可

思考的芦苇
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
中国记得应该是 rule by law, 法制可以理解成以法制民,政府是把法律当成工具治理民众,自身并不在法律监督,治理之下
rule of law :法治,法律至高无上,凌驾于一切之上,包括政府
rule by law:法制,中国特色,即政府通过法律来管理社会,那么法律就屈居于政府权力之下 ,其实就是人治,社会主义法治国家是啥意思,你懂的 :giggle:
 

MySunflower327

未关注(999土豆)
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
rule of law :法治,法律至高无上,凌驾于一切之上,包括政府
rule by law:法制,中国特色,即政府通过法律来管理社会,那么法律就屈居于政府权力之下 ,其实就是人治,社会主义法治国家是啥意思,你懂的 :giggle:
rule of law :法治,law是rule的依据,目的是治理
rule by law:法制,law是rule的手段,目的是统治
对吗?
 

MySunflower327

未关注(999土豆)
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
100.00%
专制有专制的问题,民主有民主的问题。
民主的问题就在于这个“民”字。人倾向于根据眼前的利益和个人的喜好做出选择。组成人群的人数越多,所做的选择越差。
我们都有种错觉,觉得这一百年几十年民主制度在全世界胜利了,民主就像相对论和牛顿三定律一样是世界的必然法则,是人类社会组织的高级形式。
其实不是,而且百十年也根本不算什么。南宋也曾经有经济发达的几十年。南宋人也可能认为他们的社会是宇宙唯一先进社会。
其实如果往回看几百几千年的尺度,人类社会根本没有从专制到民主的清晰趋势线,基本上是在有人治理和没人治理,治理手段有好有坏。你如果非要用民主专制这种名词,可以说一会儿民主成分多一会儿专制成分多。
人类社会就没有找到过一种更好的制度,能保证人类的长期健康发展。
中国在未来也不大可能找到这样的制度,但我希望他们能走自己的路。西方的方式不是唯一正确的。在未来的几百年,西方社会和文化,尤其是美洲的社会和文化会去西方化。在这样的背景下,很有可能我们现在认为和文化大革命一样万岁的西方民主制度,在几百年内会失败,不单单是失败,而是被遗忘。
赞思考点不错
没有完美的制度
什么阶段适合谁发展就走什么道路
所以,不少人也出国来生活了
但国内人有些你送他到民主国家他还不出来呢
而且以后还有不少人回流或继续过来

之前看TED西方有专门研究中国政体的人
说中国的某些治理方式也有很多值得西方思考借鉴
 
在一些人眼里, 楼主在五分的道路上越走越远 ?
佩奇既不分,也不毛。基本上是两面都不讨好。佩奇只想,站在草民百姓的角度看社会,让自己的生活过得更加自在逍遥,别受Bully,更加理直气壮。
 
最后编辑: 2020-06-06
最大赞力
0.00
当前赞力
95.71%
民主和专制一样,只是人造概念,都不是自然法则。现实世界不存在纯粹的民主或专制。西方的方式不是实现人类社会进步的唯一正确方式。
放长一点的时间尺度,也许几百年以后,作为人造概念,民主和专制都可能成为只有历史学家才知道的名词。
所有的思想和理论都是人造概念,符合自然法则的会发展壮大,违背自然法则的就会被淘汰。
民主概念的根本是人权和自由。没错,现在的民主方式不是实现人类进步的唯一正确方式,但它是目前为止可以维护人权和自由的最好选择。
专制,永远是践踏人权和自由的,是邪恶的,必然是被淘汰的。你可以查阅老毛在这方面的文章和言论。
 
我看到楼主说rule by law 和 rule of law,很难理解不同之处,甚至糊涂了。查了之后,才发现有如此巨大的区别。
是,

Rule of law:法律和宪法就是统治者。


Rule by law,把法律和宪法,统治者手里的刀子,来统治天下。东西南北中,都在领导下,都要依法治国
 

Similar threads

家园推荐黄页

家园币系统数据

家园币池子报价
家园币最新成交价
家园币总发行量
加元现金总量
家园币总成交量
家园币总成交价值

池子家园币总量
池子加元现金总量
池子币总量
1池子币现价
池子家园币总手续费
池子加元总手续费
入池家园币年化收益率
入池加元年化收益率

微比特币最新报价
毫以太币最新报价
微比特币总量
毫以太币总量
家园币储备总净值
家园币比特币储备
家园币以太币储备
比特币的加元报价
以太币的加元报价
USDT的加元报价

交易币种/月度交易量
家园币
加元交易对(比特币等)
USDT交易对(比特币等)
顶部