谢谢。最初学英语时，曾花了大约半年时间认真读了几本语法书。我一直觉得，扎实的（惭愧，本人又皮厚了）语法在我日后的语言工作（尤其是笔译）中起了至关重要的作用。每个人对语言的要求不同，专业译员希望自己语言准确地道，非语言工作者则可能需要借助语言有效沟通。我想我的意思是，每个人有自己行之有效的学习手段，比如，我喜欢看一些BBC的纪录片，了解些新事物的同时也在锻炼自己的听力……
英语专业，两年找了三个工作，拿了三个证，撞了一次车
- 主题发起人 安小忆
- 发布时间 2013-05-16
没用，中国人就这样，一张嘴还不如中东难民说的流利。
非常感谢，心里十分受用：）我会继续在这个帖子里举各种翻译例子，分析英汉双语。
比如，尽量脱离字幕看美剧，看着看着，听力就提高了（前提是有一定的英语基础）
左顾右盼，周围无人，悄悄的说：我实在是太同意你的观点了：）
谢谢
这不能说是中国人的错。汉英差异太大，我们学英语不太容易。另外，在某些中东国家（比如埃及），英语的普及程度很高，真正相当于“第二语言”。
严重同意！
能看懂美剧，至少说明听力是没有问题的。美剧就像是我们的日常生活，我们看美剧的时候是什么状态，在日常生活与人交流就是什么状态，能听懂美剧，我们的日常生活交流也没有问题。因为剧情也是生活！
表述的思维方式是不一样的，这造成了我们的中式英语人家不懂，人家的地道英语我们一头雾水！我经历过一个阶段：基本上对方的每一个单词我都听清楚了，但就是整句话不知道啥意思！
不要不好意思嘛！
我一直认为学习语言是需要天分的！你就是天分的一员！
有人说学习语言需要环境，这个不假，但是最重要的是年龄！更重要的是努力，最重要的是天分！
在国内人的眼里，我们是有语言环境的，为什么有的人的英语还不如人家国内的呢，所以说自身不努力，啥都是白搭！
而我佩服的人是，没有语言环境，照样学得棒棒的！楼主应该是其中之一吧！（没有拍马屁）
敢张嘴就是很不错的表现了！
我學習英語已經很久了，但總覺得還是不行，因為看到別人寫的文章，自量自己是寫不出的，甚至想更改少許來抄襲，也不行。
同感！总是问自己为什么我就想不到这样来表达呢？
慢慢的我也就习惯了，自觉没有那个语言天分！
不过我自认为还是很努力的，有空的时候我就把一些手册，比如银行发的小册子啥的，我就认真的看一遍，然后自己再默写一遍，还是很有效果的！笨人就用笨办法吧！
有时候安慰自己：语言是很难学的！哈哈！
问题就在这，听不懂。单词都认得，问题就在于听不懂，即使听懂了也要在脑子里翻译一遍才能明白。一直在练，感觉收效甚微，很是迷茫。
"L’étudiant qui a complété ses études secondaires à l’extérieur du Québec et dont la langue maternelle n’est pas le français devra passer un test de français international (TFI). "
听说有的CEGEP把这条最基本的入学要求都给省略了。
iTranslator
Hopefully, something that begins with a lower-case “i” will go well…
I am a translator/interpreter.
For me, it was and is a challenging job.
And it will probably remain so in the foreseeable future.
Strictly speaking, I am in no position to comment on translation/interpretation in its entirety as I work as a Mandarin Interpreter and a Chinese Translator. In case one might wonder, yes, the skills required for different language pairs may be vastly different. Some languages carry tones that speakers of other languages find especially challenging, while other languages use tenses that cause a lot of trouble to those whose first language doesn’t. Although I did spend some time (a few hours per week over a period of three years) learning French and Japanese in school, I have never managed to reach a functionally communicative level and therefore can’t call myself a speaker of those two, which by the way might be one more sad but enlightening example that a thousand hours is pretty much nothing when it comes to learning a language. Therefore, all the comments and observations made hereinafter will be focused on Chinese (Mandarin) translation only unless specifically indicated otherwise.
First of all, let me try to make a distinction between two terms: Mandarin and Cantonese.
Some people are confused about the two and may refer to the language spoken in China as Chinese. Based on a mostly similar writing system, Mandarin and Cantonese differ primarily in the pronunciation. Mandarin originated from northern China and was promoted by the government over the rest of mainland China as an effective tool to unify the country (people speaking the same language tend to think in a similar way and one universal language makes communication much easier). Nowadays, Mandarin is widely spoken all over mainland China and Taiwan, with slight differences in pronunciation and choices of words from region to region (somewhat like British English and American English). Cantonese is spoken primarily in Hong Kong and some areas in southern China. Whether the two are different languages or two dialects/varieties of “Chinese” is a quite complicated linguistic issue. Linguistically speaking, I prefer to think of the two as different languages, as speakers of one would not be able to understand speakers of the other. In that sense, one can make the safe statement that southern China is home to hundreds of “languages” as a large percentage of the hundreds of dialects used across southern China could possibly sound like “Martian” to those in north China that speak Mandarin only. In fact, Chinese people sometimes refer to an incomprehensible dialect as “Bird Talk” (no derogatory implication intended), and it does not help an interpreter that every day millions of tongues from the south are waggling in one Bird Talk or another.
Secondly, I would like to lay out some frustrating but unavoidable factors that contribute and will contribute to the job being, at least in my opinion, extremely, constantly, and satisfactorily challenging:
1. Vocabulary
In simple terms, the vocabulary required is just too huge.
A language serves to describe the world, and the world is, unfortunately and satisfactorily for an interpreter, too huge. One’s language is like a building made of blocks (words) in accordance with architectural laws (grammar and syntax). The bigger the vocabulary, the more effectively and accurately the world can be described. The thing is, most people only deal with his or her specific field and don’t have to bother with wading into other people’s territories. May the accountant is understandably well-versed in business language, your family doctor House is familiar with medical terminology, and one can expect a lecture from a Superior Court judge to be saturated with abstruse legal terms.
To rub even more salt into the wound, it is not just professionals that use and are comfortable with their own “language”. Almost everybody has his or her unique language that may not be easily comprehensible to someone out of his or her life. Tom Sawyer could easily strike up a conversation with his kindergarten buddy, fondly reminiscing about the dysfunctional diapers they had enjoyed sharing in those good old days, in the meantime successfully confusing a pair of curious ears. Alice the translator, luckily, does not enjoy the luxury of relaxing in this linguistic comfort zone and is constantly called upon to adventure into and be exposed to that dangerous “wonderland” where all these monsters innocently disguised as terms, jargons, and acronyms lurk, patiently waiting to ambush, trap, and prey upon poor Alice. To survive, Alice has to make herself the fittest. And to be the fittest, she has to familiarize herself with the monsters’ vulnerability and develop effective tactics to ward off their ruthless attacks. In the wonderland of languages, there is no “fight or flight” choice for Alice. Either she fights or she flunks.
Sadly, monsters always outnumber Alice.
2. Different modes of thinking (huge differences in the underlying structure)
People speaking different languages tend to think in different ways. In other words, the language one speaks influences or even shapes the way one thinks.
Take for instance this sentence below:
Alice is a heavy drinker.
“…a heavy drinker” is typical of English speaking, while to a Mandarin or Cantonese speaker, a literal or word-for-word translation might sound odd. A more natural way of rendering the same meaning into Mandarin has to be “Alice drinks heavily”. Further analysis of this example might reveal English speakers tend to view the world as “existing”, while Mandarin/Cantonese speakers prefer to describe one’s behavior as “imposed”. In other words, a noun signifies existence and a verb indicates imposition.
The above is only one of many examples that prove the existence of huge and almost linguistically insurmountable gaps in terms of the way people speaking different languages think. For instance, Mandarin does not differentiate between third-person male and female in pronunciation, doesn’t use tenses, and frequently omits the subject. As a result, when an interpreter hears the sound “Ta”, chances are there is no telling whether it is a “he”, “she”, “him” or “her”. Therefore, when I came across the sentence (in Mandarin) “I called my friend andTa told me to call the police”, I had to repeat the word “friend” and interpreted it as “I called my friend and my friend told me to call the police”.
The absence of tenses in Mandarin could potentially be a big headache for interpreters. When we hear the words “Ta Shi my lawyer”, it could mean “He/She is/was/will be my lawyer”. Some interpreters try to make the safest guess while others would ask for clarification at the uncomfortable risk of coming across as incompetent. After all, who would possibly misunderstand such a simple statement, right?
Unlike English where the subject is rarely skipped except in very informal speeches, omission of subjects (or predicates / objects for that matter) is common in Mandarin or Cantonese. A case my colleagues and I discussed is one in which the interpreter was asked to provide “word-for-word” translation. When the accused was asked if he understood, the reply he gave was “Mingbai”. What he meant was “Yes, I understand”. If the interpreter sticks to word-for-word translation (assuming there is such a thing as word-for-word translation in the first place), the translation would be “understand”. And the accused was then asked “do you know…” and answered “Zhidao”. What he meant was “Yes, I know”. Again, a “word-for-word” translation would be “know”, successfully confusing the crown as apparently the accused just indicated he didn’t know as his answer sounded like “No”, loud and clear.
Mandarin is a member of the Sino-Tibetan language family, within which there are upwards of 400 languages, including a large number of Chinese varieties (or dialect). For instance, I grew up speaking a dialect in southern China and was educated in Mandarin. An interesting observation is I have some “interesting” expressions that are “interesting” only in my dialect and sound less “interesting” once I try to render (translate) the same meaning in Mandarin. Word-for-word translation can only happen between two very similar languages. My dialect and Mandarin are quite similar in terms of the underlying structure, and still word-for-word translation doesn’t come easily.
3. PTSD
The way one is brought up, the education background, one’s social status, existence or absence of a social support system….these factors work together in some way to shape one’s personality. People of different personalities speak differently when they speak the same language. A well-trained lawyer can be eloquent, exuding great confidence, making clear and logical arguments, delivering well-phrased, grammatically perfect and, unfortunate for interpreters, sometimes long-winded speeches.... A fresh-off-the-boat immigrant that lacks the faintest idea of court proceedings may look confused (even with the help of an interpreter), struggle for words, fail (or probably doesn’t know how) to ask the right questions, stammer in an incoherent and fragmented way….
An interpreter is expected to faithfully convey, not just the message, but also the tone and register. In doing so, the interpreter is subject to the influence of different personality-based speech styles and may subconsciously pick up the personality. One minute the interpreter is “acting” like a legal counsel delivering a well-designed speech; the next he or she may have to “mimic” the halting and mumbling answer of a hesitant witness.
Constantly switching between speech styles is no easy task, bringing with it the risk of split personality and PTSD (Personality Tampering Stress Disorder). Thankfully, interpreters are a bunch of tough cookies. Getting baked is a daily thing.
4. Vague and evasive language
It so happens that, for various reasons, people may use highly vague and evasive language. Usually evasive language says something about an unwillingness to be cooperative and upfront. Tom Sawyer's diaper producer may hesitate to specify a deadline for solving the issue of dysfunctional diapers, Dr. House's married patient would probably rather keep secret the real reason for that suspicious STD, and May's boss has refused to give a direct answer to the auditor's question on last quarter's income statement...An accused can be so evasive on the witness stand that he or she could be observed to keep speaking for quite a while without making sense at all. The interpreter has to really rack the brain trying to figure out what he or she is trying to say.
It doesn’t help that Mandarin is in itself a highly vague language. Mandarin (or Chinese in the sense of written language) is poetic and makes a perfect literature language, but it is not the ideal science language. Unlike a European language that can be highly precise thanks to tenses, well-designed syntaxes, and well-developed grammar rules, Mandarin relies heavily on context for distinctions of time, logic, reasoning….It is no coincidence the industrial revolution started in the western world.
5. Chaotic setting
As is known to all who watch the TV show Judge Judy, a courtroom is never short of people who ignore normal conversation etiquette and try to talk over each other. From the very first day of working as an interpreter, I was told to interpret “everything” that was being said in court. Hearing multiple speakers’ voices at the same time does not make the job much easier.
No wonder Alice just cannot help loving the wonderland. It's BIG.
Hopefully, something that begins with a lower-case “i” will go well…
I am a translator/interpreter.
For me, it was and is a challenging job.
And it will probably remain so in the foreseeable future.
Strictly speaking, I am in no position to comment on translation/interpretation in its entirety as I work as a Mandarin Interpreter and a Chinese Translator. In case one might wonder, yes, the skills required for different language pairs may be vastly different. Some languages carry tones that speakers of other languages find especially challenging, while other languages use tenses that cause a lot of trouble to those whose first language doesn’t. Although I did spend some time (a few hours per week over a period of three years) learning French and Japanese in school, I have never managed to reach a functionally communicative level and therefore can’t call myself a speaker of those two, which by the way might be one more sad but enlightening example that a thousand hours is pretty much nothing when it comes to learning a language. Therefore, all the comments and observations made hereinafter will be focused on Chinese (Mandarin) translation only unless specifically indicated otherwise.
First of all, let me try to make a distinction between two terms: Mandarin and Cantonese.
Some people are confused about the two and may refer to the language spoken in China as Chinese. Based on a mostly similar writing system, Mandarin and Cantonese differ primarily in the pronunciation. Mandarin originated from northern China and was promoted by the government over the rest of mainland China as an effective tool to unify the country (people speaking the same language tend to think in a similar way and one universal language makes communication much easier). Nowadays, Mandarin is widely spoken all over mainland China and Taiwan, with slight differences in pronunciation and choices of words from region to region (somewhat like British English and American English). Cantonese is spoken primarily in Hong Kong and some areas in southern China. Whether the two are different languages or two dialects/varieties of “Chinese” is a quite complicated linguistic issue. Linguistically speaking, I prefer to think of the two as different languages, as speakers of one would not be able to understand speakers of the other. In that sense, one can make the safe statement that southern China is home to hundreds of “languages” as a large percentage of the hundreds of dialects used across southern China could possibly sound like “Martian” to those in north China that speak Mandarin only. In fact, Chinese people sometimes refer to an incomprehensible dialect as “Bird Talk” (no derogatory implication intended), and it does not help an interpreter that every day millions of tongues from the south are waggling in one Bird Talk or another.
Secondly, I would like to lay out some frustrating but unavoidable factors that contribute and will contribute to the job being, at least in my opinion, extremely, constantly, and satisfactorily challenging:
1. Vocabulary
In simple terms, the vocabulary required is just too huge.
A language serves to describe the world, and the world is, unfortunately and satisfactorily for an interpreter, too huge. One’s language is like a building made of blocks (words) in accordance with architectural laws (grammar and syntax). The bigger the vocabulary, the more effectively and accurately the world can be described. The thing is, most people only deal with his or her specific field and don’t have to bother with wading into other people’s territories. May the accountant is understandably well-versed in business language, your family doctor House is familiar with medical terminology, and one can expect a lecture from a Superior Court judge to be saturated with abstruse legal terms.
To rub even more salt into the wound, it is not just professionals that use and are comfortable with their own “language”. Almost everybody has his or her unique language that may not be easily comprehensible to someone out of his or her life. Tom Sawyer could easily strike up a conversation with his kindergarten buddy, fondly reminiscing about the dysfunctional diapers they had enjoyed sharing in those good old days, in the meantime successfully confusing a pair of curious ears. Alice the translator, luckily, does not enjoy the luxury of relaxing in this linguistic comfort zone and is constantly called upon to adventure into and be exposed to that dangerous “wonderland” where all these monsters innocently disguised as terms, jargons, and acronyms lurk, patiently waiting to ambush, trap, and prey upon poor Alice. To survive, Alice has to make herself the fittest. And to be the fittest, she has to familiarize herself with the monsters’ vulnerability and develop effective tactics to ward off their ruthless attacks. In the wonderland of languages, there is no “fight or flight” choice for Alice. Either she fights or she flunks.
Sadly, monsters always outnumber Alice.
2. Different modes of thinking (huge differences in the underlying structure)
People speaking different languages tend to think in different ways. In other words, the language one speaks influences or even shapes the way one thinks.
Take for instance this sentence below:
Alice is a heavy drinker.
“…a heavy drinker” is typical of English speaking, while to a Mandarin or Cantonese speaker, a literal or word-for-word translation might sound odd. A more natural way of rendering the same meaning into Mandarin has to be “Alice drinks heavily”. Further analysis of this example might reveal English speakers tend to view the world as “existing”, while Mandarin/Cantonese speakers prefer to describe one’s behavior as “imposed”. In other words, a noun signifies existence and a verb indicates imposition.
The above is only one of many examples that prove the existence of huge and almost linguistically insurmountable gaps in terms of the way people speaking different languages think. For instance, Mandarin does not differentiate between third-person male and female in pronunciation, doesn’t use tenses, and frequently omits the subject. As a result, when an interpreter hears the sound “Ta”, chances are there is no telling whether it is a “he”, “she”, “him” or “her”. Therefore, when I came across the sentence (in Mandarin) “I called my friend andTa told me to call the police”, I had to repeat the word “friend” and interpreted it as “I called my friend and my friend told me to call the police”.
The absence of tenses in Mandarin could potentially be a big headache for interpreters. When we hear the words “Ta Shi my lawyer”, it could mean “He/She is/was/will be my lawyer”. Some interpreters try to make the safest guess while others would ask for clarification at the uncomfortable risk of coming across as incompetent. After all, who would possibly misunderstand such a simple statement, right?
Unlike English where the subject is rarely skipped except in very informal speeches, omission of subjects (or predicates / objects for that matter) is common in Mandarin or Cantonese. A case my colleagues and I discussed is one in which the interpreter was asked to provide “word-for-word” translation. When the accused was asked if he understood, the reply he gave was “Mingbai”. What he meant was “Yes, I understand”. If the interpreter sticks to word-for-word translation (assuming there is such a thing as word-for-word translation in the first place), the translation would be “understand”. And the accused was then asked “do you know…” and answered “Zhidao”. What he meant was “Yes, I know”. Again, a “word-for-word” translation would be “know”, successfully confusing the crown as apparently the accused just indicated he didn’t know as his answer sounded like “No”, loud and clear.
Mandarin is a member of the Sino-Tibetan language family, within which there are upwards of 400 languages, including a large number of Chinese varieties (or dialect). For instance, I grew up speaking a dialect in southern China and was educated in Mandarin. An interesting observation is I have some “interesting” expressions that are “interesting” only in my dialect and sound less “interesting” once I try to render (translate) the same meaning in Mandarin. Word-for-word translation can only happen between two very similar languages. My dialect and Mandarin are quite similar in terms of the underlying structure, and still word-for-word translation doesn’t come easily.
3. PTSD
The way one is brought up, the education background, one’s social status, existence or absence of a social support system….these factors work together in some way to shape one’s personality. People of different personalities speak differently when they speak the same language. A well-trained lawyer can be eloquent, exuding great confidence, making clear and logical arguments, delivering well-phrased, grammatically perfect and, unfortunate for interpreters, sometimes long-winded speeches.... A fresh-off-the-boat immigrant that lacks the faintest idea of court proceedings may look confused (even with the help of an interpreter), struggle for words, fail (or probably doesn’t know how) to ask the right questions, stammer in an incoherent and fragmented way….
An interpreter is expected to faithfully convey, not just the message, but also the tone and register. In doing so, the interpreter is subject to the influence of different personality-based speech styles and may subconsciously pick up the personality. One minute the interpreter is “acting” like a legal counsel delivering a well-designed speech; the next he or she may have to “mimic” the halting and mumbling answer of a hesitant witness.
Constantly switching between speech styles is no easy task, bringing with it the risk of split personality and PTSD (Personality Tampering Stress Disorder). Thankfully, interpreters are a bunch of tough cookies. Getting baked is a daily thing.
4. Vague and evasive language
It so happens that, for various reasons, people may use highly vague and evasive language. Usually evasive language says something about an unwillingness to be cooperative and upfront. Tom Sawyer's diaper producer may hesitate to specify a deadline for solving the issue of dysfunctional diapers, Dr. House's married patient would probably rather keep secret the real reason for that suspicious STD, and May's boss has refused to give a direct answer to the auditor's question on last quarter's income statement...An accused can be so evasive on the witness stand that he or she could be observed to keep speaking for quite a while without making sense at all. The interpreter has to really rack the brain trying to figure out what he or she is trying to say.
It doesn’t help that Mandarin is in itself a highly vague language. Mandarin (or Chinese in the sense of written language) is poetic and makes a perfect literature language, but it is not the ideal science language. Unlike a European language that can be highly precise thanks to tenses, well-designed syntaxes, and well-developed grammar rules, Mandarin relies heavily on context for distinctions of time, logic, reasoning….It is no coincidence the industrial revolution started in the western world.
5. Chaotic setting
As is known to all who watch the TV show Judge Judy, a courtroom is never short of people who ignore normal conversation etiquette and try to talk over each other. From the very first day of working as an interpreter, I was told to interpret “everything” that was being said in court. Hearing multiple speakers’ voices at the same time does not make the job much easier.
No wonder Alice just cannot help loving the wonderland. It's BIG.
"金正恩翻译奖"是什么？Is it a joke?
小金发奖表彰对东北亚和平作出贡献的好同志：）开玩笑的，哈哈
近日在庭审作证中见到这么一问一答：
问：你能听懂普通话吗？
答：100%
这个回答不准确，虽然不构成perjury（作伪证），但其实是个honest mistake。
没有任何人能够100%听懂所有语言，即使是自己的母语。
准确地回答应该是：我一般都能听懂，前提是内容不超出我的知识范围。
有人见到移民二代来了一年半载就开始颇为流利地讲英语，于是误以为只需一年半载就能“掌握”英语。
问：你能听懂普通话吗？
答：100%
这个回答不准确，虽然不构成perjury（作伪证），但其实是个honest mistake。
没有任何人能够100%听懂所有语言，即使是自己的母语。
准确地回答应该是：我一般都能听懂，前提是内容不超出我的知识范围。
有人见到移民二代来了一年半载就开始颇为流利地讲英语，于是误以为只需一年半载就能“掌握”英语。
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
LMAO
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
金正恩翻译奖获得者
LMAO
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